本頁不應由老化糊塗外行之我維護。 This page should not be maintained by aging confused amateur me.
現代台灣地圖只能出現下列座標: Modern Taiwan maps will only have the following coordinates, if any:
TWD67 例 examples:
若以上偏約 If the above are off by about 828 meters 公尺, 該圖則 then the map is TWD97.
If you mix up TWD67 and TWD97, your results could be off by a kilometer -- dangerous [Chinese].
我們來請教洪本善老師 TWD67, TWD97, WGS84。 它們若弄錯,測的結果可能差一公里, 會釀成新聞如:
總統限航區座標烏龍事件, 錯用舊座標系統! 民航局將公告正確位置 (2003.7.15)
甚至有危險。 那末, 今日除了東經、北緯外, 必加個TWD67或TWD97始有意義。 So, these days, beside longitude and latitude, one must also mention "TWD67" or "TWD97" for the data point to be useful. 一個負責任的地圖出版社應同時載TWD67及TWD97才對。 建議如公里方格前者用黑, 後者用籃, 而兩者之經緯度於邊遠用短線。 一看 TWD97 是用籃方格, 或至少邊緣短線。 A responsible map publisher should print both grids...
2003。8。26 朋友寄給我:
建議你新增一個網頁詳細介紹目前台灣地區 TWD67╱TM2 及經緯度, TWD97╱TM2 及經緯度, WGS84╱經緯度的使用現況, 釐清許多人對此的錯誤觀念,同時我也與消防署詢問搜救地點坐標通報的規範時, 對方告知只要求以經緯度通報, 但是沒有要求是以 WGS84 為 datum, 追問下竟然他們根本不知道原來還有 TWD67,TWD97, WGS84 的差別, 我就舉上次三貂角雷達為例, 他們才恍然大悟, 我給了 Garmin 何經理電話請他們聯絡, 因此你真的必須要建立此一網頁, 如果最高搜救機關都沒有規定通報規則(最好以 WGS84 為 datum 的經緯度), 更何況下屬警察機關, 搜救單位(民間或是消防隊), 以及對登山人員的宣導, 徒增搜救成本。 對了何經理提到 TWD97╱TM2 及經緯度已經使用於新出版的航照圖, 只是不知道何時民間登山常用的經建版 1╱25000 及 1╱50000 地形圖會改變 datum, 或許你也可以以此向相關單位詢問未來推廣 TWD67 改為 TWD97 的轉變時程, 因為這對全台灣的坐標通報實在有很大的影響, 相信你是此中專家, 一定知道相關影響層面。
2007/3 總而言之, 救難者應尋三處 To sum it up, rescuers should check three places:
| 他報的是 They report |
我拿的圖是 Our map is |
我應查 We should check |
|---|---|---|
| WGS84 | WGS84 | 原報的 original X,Y |
| WGS84 | TWD67 | X-828m, Y+207m |
| TWD67 | WGS84 | X+828m, Y-207m |
| TWD67 | TWD67 | 原報的 original X,Y |
正如病人說他是AB血型, 仍必測試始能輸血, 無法確定報的人搞清什麼 WGS84╱TWD67, 又支派的人員圖堆亦然搞不清, 故建議直昇機飛上述三處, 成西北西東南東狀, 過程中指揮中心千萬不要替人家轉換座標, 以免混淆極增。 註:本人無實際救難經驗, 以上屬猜測理論。
Recommendation to rescuers: just like medical workers still will test the patient's blood type before giving them a transfusion even though they insist they are type AB etc., we shouldn't trust the reporting public's vague notions of datums, if any. Nor should we trust various rescue teams with piles or PDAs of various maps. Therefore the helicopter should check in the above three places, which form a west-northwest - east-southeast line. During the process the coordination center should not "help" anybody by converting the original reported coordinates, lest confusion increase exponentially. Note however that I have no rescue experience and the above is all a guess as to how things should operate.
| Latitude origin | 0 degrees |
| Central meridian | 121 degrees E |
| Scale factor | 0.9999 |
| False easting | 250000 m |
| False northing | 0 m |
They are both 2 degree wide transverse Mercator projections. They differ in their ellipse.
至赤道與東經121度, 頭再往西, 往前250公里。 此時已離地面相當高。 此點好像是原點。
Go to the junction of the equator and 121 degrees east longitude, then point one's head west and go straight 250 km. When one stops one will be considerably above the earth's surface. I'm pretty sure that is the "origin".
不完全一致。 拿地圖仔細看, 唯一TM方格線與經、緯線完全平行就是250kmE 即東經121度那條, 其他有多少歪斜。
Not exactly. Take a good look at a map. The only place where the longitude and latitude grid lines are parallel to the TM2 grid lines is 250 km E., i.e., 121 east longitude, that single line. All other lines are more or less askew.
proj is free software:
GNU/Linux example, 東郡大山 Dongjundashan TWD67: given x and y, compute longitude and latitude (and store them in variable
LL):$ LL=$(echo 258566.571 2613894.788 | proj -I +proj=tmerc +ellps=aust_SA +lon_0=121 +x_0=250000 +k=0.9999) $ echo $LL 121d5'2.255"E 23d37'42.655"NNow convert back to x and y:
$ echo $LL | proj +proj=tmerc +ellps=aust_SA +lon_0=121 +x_0=250000 +k=0.9999 258566.57 2613894.80(If we were using TWD97 instead of TWD67, we would instead use:)
$ proj +proj=tmerc +ellps=GRS80 +lon_0=121 +x_0=250000 +k=0.9999The ellipses we use can be seen with "
proj -le":
For TWD97 use 用:
GRS80 a=6378137.0 rf=298.257222101 GRS 1980(IUGG 1980)For TWD67 用:
- Use:
aust_SA a=6378160.0 rf=298.25 Australian Natl & S.Amer. 1969- 不要用 DON'T use:
GRS67 a=6378160.0 rf=298.2471674270 GRS 67 (IUGG 1967)I.e. the TWD67 spheroid is NOT the International 1967. 名字會亂, 參數才算。 Names get confused; parameters are what count.
- Q: the HTZ (Hu Tzu Shan) datum predefined in ArcInfo/ArcGIS is set to Int/Hayford 1909. Have ESRI (Arc perpetrators) made a mistake?
A: Try the aust_SA parameters instead. 「虎子山」此名充滿了危機, 定義已多。 只能談其a=、f=。 The name "Hu-tzu-shan" is full of danger, as it has accrued several definitions. One must instead talk in terms of a=, f=.
/usr/share/proj/epsghas a# Hu Tzu Shan <4236> +proj=longlat +ellps=intl +towgs84=-637,-549,-203,0,0,0,0 +no_defs <>which is suspect too. 頗質疑。
另參 Also see perl module Geography::NationalGrid::TW.
A: 那麼, 既然是自有軟體, 也許看 Well, since it is Free Software, perhaps see the source code to proj 的原始碼? Also note freegis.org .
GPSFUN 有如下之比較 has a comparison like:
| 大地基準 Datum | 參考橢球 Reference spheroid | 長半徑 major axis "a" | 扁率 flattening "f" |
|---|---|---|---|
| see note 註* | see note 註* | 6378388 | 1/297 |
| TWD67 | GRS67 | 6378160 | 1/298.25 |
| TWD97 | GRS80 | 6378137 | 1/298.257222101 |
| WGS84 | WGS84 | 6378137 | 1/298.257223563 |
*註解 note: the names 所謂 "hu-tzu-shan", and even 甚至 "International 19xx", 此兩名字經多年已累積多重定義 have been given many definitions here in Taiwan, so are dangerous to use. One must speak in terms of 故用之危險, 只好直接講 a, f !
甚至 "hu-tzu-shan" 有時 sometimes even means 拿來稱 TWD67.
台灣經緯度及二度TM座標轉換 Online TM to lat/long transformation (for TWD67 to TWD67, TWD97 to TWD97 will be off by .0001 degree), 但無原始碼, 無千分之一度之下數字, 無清楚網站名。 [Chinese] but no source code, no decimals below 0.0001 degrees, no clear website name.
TWD97 is very close to 幾乎等於 WGS84, at least where I live,
$ a="120d51'58.2\"E 24d10'54.2\"N"; echo $a #(just see what it looks like)120d51'58.2"E 24d10'54.2"N
$ echo $a | proj +proj=tmerc +ellps=GRS80 +lon_0=121 +x_0=250000 +k=0.9999 -f %.5f236402.76293 2675155.08596
$ echo $a | proj +proj=tmerc +ellps=WGS84 +lon_0=121 +x_0=250000 +k=0.9999 -f %.5f236402.76293 2675155.08604
$ echo 2675155.08604 - 2675155.08596 | bc.00008
gpsman author "M" == Miguel Filgueiras writes:
- M> As far as I understand from your description these 2 degree zones centered from 115 to 125 will cover longitudes from 114 to 126. Does these cover all Taiwan territory?
yes, everything that Taiwan owns or still claims to own.
- M> I also take it that these zones cover all the latitude range, that is, for each central meridian there is a single zone for all the possible latitudes in Taiwan.
Yes, and each has Y=0 at the equator, and X=250000 at the central meridian.
- M> Another point: could you please confirm that the correct scale factor is k0=0.9999.
yes, that's right, 0.99990 And note that these 6 zones can be used with both the TWD67 or TWD97 datums.
I discovered many maps of Jinmen 金門, at least as late as the 1990's still use an older system:)
$ proj +proj=utm +ellps=intl +lon_0=117 # intl a=6378388.0 rf=297. International 1909 (Hayford)
每天很多人到敝站找答案, 不知道有無一位願意寫開放原始碼程式給大家用? (3/2008: 政府的封閉版本 Government's closed-source version: .PDFs, .ZIPs. 不理之而自己弄如下 Anyways, ignoring them we do it by hand:)
目前我只能全省以
臨時土法, 含幾公尺誤差 This is the best I can do at present, for all of Taiwan, with its few meters of error. (828: 但下邊都 Odd, all the few formula I have below give approximately 841, 為什麼 why?)
另 Also john at thl.ncku.edu.tw 8/2003 捐的 contributed:
A = 0.00001549 B = 0.000006521 X67 = X97 - 807.8 - A * X97 - B * Y97 Y67 = Y97 + 248.6 - A * Y97 - B * X97 X97 = X67 + 807.8 + A * X67 + B * Y67 Y97 = Y67 - 248.6 + A * Y67 + B * X67 Perl implementation
「以四參數法(平移加旋轉因子)來統計, 此算法比七參數法來得簡單! 結果誤差應在2公尺內!」
2/2006: 今生 Now there is Perl Geography-NationalGrid-TW 那麼, 也許解決本頁很多問題。 which perhaps solves many problems discussed by this page. 2007/10: xylonlat 採之為例 is an example program I wrote using it.
Minstrel made programs, 6/2004.
2007: note http://www.mobile01.com/topicdetail.php?f=130&t=374120
我不清楚67╱97的高程轉換法。 I'm not sure what the official Z axis transformation is for TWD67--TWD97.
本來應該能夠由內政部地政司衛星測量中心 取多些點做 67, 97 比較, 但因其成果供應要點: 「…以公尺為單位,且其個位數值以零替代」, 故休想。 所謂「公」佈和「公」告 TWD97 的「公」字程度就這樣。
雖然 TWD67 與 TWD97 轉換程式都已經有人寫好, 如林務局 MTWDCON 等等, 但作者或單位不願意開放。 另外, 這多數是專為了微軟系統。 故希望有一位懂得座標轉換的人, 願意採自有軟體版權, 寫個 TWD67 與 TWD97 轉換程式, 原始碼也放網。 說不定以後大家都用我們的。
There are various programs here in Taiwan to convert from TWD67 to TWD97, but their authors or organizations are not willing to release them. Also most are for Micro$oft. Therefore, I wish there would be someone who understands coordinate transformations to step forth and under the free software license write a TWD67 -- TWD97 transformation program and also put its source code on the web. Who knows, perhaps in the future everybody will use ours!
研究支援工具 Tools 可能只是 might only be for Windows.
From a 從人家送我的 fortran program I was given, I guess 我猜 proj's 的 cs2cs parameters might be 參數如
$ cs2cs +proj=tmerc +ellps=aust_SA \ +towgs84=-764.558,-361.229,-178.374,-.0000011698,\ .0000018398,.0000009822,.00002329 +lon_0=121 +x_0=250000 \ +k=0.9999 +to +proj=tmerc +datum=WGS84 +lon_0=121 +x_0=250000 +k=0.9999
The results and 所得與 transfer.for's are close 近: 即全島約 for the whole island around x: -841, y: 207, (z: varies a lot). 也許懂的人能幫忙做更好的。 Maybe someone who understands this could lend a hand.
某公司蒐集了各縣市平均值,但:
「因此檔案是屬公司的智慧財產, 積多年經驗及智慧所得, 所以不方便給您,請您諒解!」
Note that the above is a seven parameter transformation different than:
Chatting with 與何明興 M.H. Ho of Taiwan Garmin, in 2000 年對話:
- Q: I need dx,dy,dz,da,df for Taiwan Hu-tzu-shan datum (note: "Hu-tzu-shan datum" is Garmin's name for TWD67 故又一「虎子山」定義)
A: For GARMIN GPS:
- dx: -767 m
- dy: -358 m
- dz: -176
- da: -18.00
- df: -0.00081204
- Q: Garmin 牌 GPS,到 2000 年為止的小問題是選 Taiwan Grid 時, 它會顯示 「T67」但此與 Hu-tzu-shan datum 才有關。若選 WGS84 datum 怎麼能還要顯示「T67」呢?當然這不妨礙功能只是難看。 Q: Garmin's GPS units, at least to the year 2000, have the flaw that when we select "Taiwan Grid", the unit displays "T67". Note that that should be related to the "Hu-tzu-shan datum" [Garmin's name for TWD67]. How could one show a "67" when one selects WGS84? [The "67" has nothing to do with the grid. We use the same grid (X shifted 250000m etc.) for both TWD67 and WGS84 datums.] Of course we can still use the unit, it just looks bad.
A: 謝謝您的來信,確實若改成 WGS84 後,仍以 T67 做為標題是比較容易讓人誤解,此問題會反應給公司,謝謝您! A: Thanks for your letter. Indeed when one switches to WGS84, still showing T67 can create confusion. I will report this to our company. Thanks.
可能至今未改。難看又危險。 Perhaps Garmin still hasn't fixed this. Not only does it look bad, but it also creates danger on the trail.
2003.6.26 Cygnet said: 本來 Garmin 的 GPS 都還標 「T67」, 那是經積丹尼兄、小弟等屢次反應才改為 「TM2」。 After bugging them about it so long, new Garmins now say "TM2".
故 Garmin 舊、新機種儀表面即 So, new Garmin models display:
| Old/New | Grid | ||
|---|---|---|---|
| Lat,Lon | TM-2 | ||
| Datum | TWD67 | N,E/N,E | T67/TM2 |
| WGS84 | N,E/N,E | T67/TM2 | |
今不再用一個 datum 的名字稱呼一個 grid, 但仍無法由此儀表面知到所選之 datum。 They no longer use the name of a datum for a grid. However one still can't tell what datum has been chosen from this display.
2004/3: Garmin 長了一個新「TAIWAN」大地基準選項, 好像只是略修其所謂Hu-Tzu-Shan基準, 更貼近TWD67。 Garmin products now have an additional "TAIWAN" datum now along with their original so-called "Hu-tzu-shan" datum. Apparently this new "TAIWAN" datum is supposed to be just a minor correction to their so-called "Hu-tzu-shan" datum. The instruction books apparently say this "TAIWAN" means TWD67, which would be apparently correct. (Why doesn't Garmin just name it directly "TWD67"?)
便宜非正版 unofficial Garmin GPS 接頭 cheap connector [Taiwan]
Regarding DA, DF, DX, DY, DZ (but beware of any 但小心那兒的任何 1924 based Hu-tzu-shan datums listed there).
若在地政事務所看到以六台尺為單位之老座標, 就是所謂的地籍座標。
If in a land office you stumble upon an old grid that uses 20/11 meters per unit, that is the so called Cadastral coordinates.
轉換程式 Programs: cad2twd67
$ echo 120.85788 24.18347|./longlat2taiwanmapno #1> 120.85788 24.18347 9521-2-025 9521-2-09 9521-2-NW $ echo 9521-2-025|./taiwanmapno2longlat #1> 9521-2-025 120.850 24.175
問: 台灣官方地圖的圖號的訂定,是以 東經 73 度 30 分和北緯 14 度為標準分幅線,每 30 分 * 30 分為一幅,即以台中區圖號 9521 為例,為距東經 73 度 30 分的第 95 張圖及距北緯 14 度第 21 張圖,這個算法我明 瞭。但不明瞭的是,為什麼訂出東經 73 度 30 分和北緯 14 度為標準分幅線呢?我是 猜想這分幅線是否為中國的邊疆?
積: 看起來如此。
台灣三角點 TWD67 座標表 (TWD67 Taiwan Triangulation Points' Coordinates)
像片基本圖 1:5000 版尾編號 001 至 100 以三位數與二位數的 1:10000 版來區別; 但本來若用 00 至 99 好處多多:簡短又不造成右一排開頭數位不規則 51…59、60
Orthophotomaps are labeled from 1-100 instead of the more systematic 0-99. See Chinese version.
我很好奇,台中僑光商專周圍有一個直徑一公里的圓形小馬路, Odd, on maps from the 1980's there is traces of a 1 km. diameter circular road centered at 中心點在 TWD67 213230 mE, 2676040 mN, (north of Fengjia Univ., Taizhong). 很多政府的圖看得到其北端,但快被都市計劃磨滅。那是什麼東西?國際上 看到大規模圓形東西為核子加速器… Traces of an old cyclotron?
My friend guesses it might be a 朋友猜可能是個 high frequency direction finder, like the ones in 林口湖北村 Linkou, TWD67: 2776.5 km N 289 km E, used in cooperation with the USA in coordination with others in Asia to triangulate signals from China. However the diameter of the largest Linkou one is only 1/3 km.
大雅交流道沒建在原中清路正上方,而另繞旁路,看地圖令我很好奇, 不是只增加紅路燈?
Why isn't Taizhong's Daya Interchange on Zhongqing Rd. but instead on an extra side road? Looks so curious on a map. Doesn't that just increase the number of red lights? See Chinese version.
黃立夫說是原水湳機場跑道衝突。
網友 e0165 則試算水湳機場跑道的限建範圍及高度:
因交流道距跑道約900米, 所以限建高度=900∕50=18米, 以一般高速公路路堤高度約10米以下, 所以應該沒有影響(以機場跟高速公路地面同高估計)
限建範圍是梯形,所以交流道往北移還是在限建範圍。
所以我認為原中清路正上方建築物太多了, 所以交流道往北移。
The finder of 24N 121E reassures me he was using WGS84 and not TWD67...
朋友2003年8月寄來緊張的話:
今天收到民航局的每月通告, 提到三貂角新近安裝啟用航路搜索雷達, WGS84 經 緯度是 N25度0分27.5秒, E122度0分3.9秒, 高度128.4公尺(421英尺), 馬上查對 上河文化的北島地圖發現居然這地點是在海裡面, 再看看其他地圖發現政經版 1╱25000地圖的, 戶外生活〔方格而已〕的全部都是如此, 因此判斷這應該是這些國內地圖都是使用TWD67所致, 也就是全部都是以虎子山為基準算出來的。 如果你要再確認, 不妨用松山機場報道中心點位置(N25度04分10秒, E121度33分6秒)確認就知道了!!
更讓我訝異的是與xxxx聯繫時, 技術人員告訴我 yyyy。 看來datum 與 position format讓許多人暈頭轉向了!!! 如果用這地圖來判斷搜救地點(假設都用WGS84 告知國家搜救中心), 差距接近1公里, 可有的找了!!
註: 雷達位置應該是在萊萊山東方山麓才對。
另外, Working with Coordinates and Units 對於座標 coordidate 及基準 datum 有極清楚且簡單的說明, 非常容易讓一般人理解。
2006年9月: 積丹尼: 台灣軍方地圖使用座標格式應該是TWD67為基準, 格式則是UTM或是MGRS(尚待確認是哪一種!), 提供你鍵入〔本頁〕作為補充,
反正見其圖例細文為準, 正規圖均註之。
此外, 近日告知國家搜救中心的馬科長詢問有關座標格式轉換的問題時, 他們告知現在可以用電腦轉換了, 當然也不會有航空航海與地面人員使用座標溝通不良的問題, 提供給你參考。 -Miller
反正多看RISKS
bnpcoa2shp: 台灣地籍 Taiwan cadastral .coa, .bnp 格式轉成 format conversion to Shapefile.
Last modified: 2008-05-15 12:02:41 +0800