推漢語拼音， 摧通用拼音 （舊頁）

Go Hanyu Pinyin, No Tongyong Pinyin (old page)

本頁是庫存曾罵過的事。 請改閱今理智版。

This page stores old arguments. Please see instead current more reasonable version.

2010年

我希望同步宣佈其拼法終於回歸標準漢語拼音， 不再保留列表特例。 否則造成如今高速公路漢語、威妥瑪兩式混用， 電子地圖無法自動譯名，須設縣市一套，鄉鎮另一套。

政府採漢語拼音正停留在半路中，裹足不前。 談起這個問題大家可能以為又是「地方不配合」老政治問題。 反而不是。 反而是中央自己規定鄉鎮市村里路巷名從新，縣市名卻仍從舊。 孟買已更正了市名拼法，緬甸國名拼法也更正了，漢城能改首爾。 台灣拼音爭來爭去， 萬沒想到， 最後結果是兩套合用的精神分裂。 排除了民進黨的通用拼音， 反而拿已沒人要的威妥瑪來與漢語拼音並用， 導致連說清楚台灣地名是用何種拼音無能說。

在台灣有路牌拼音爭議。 2010年現在，問題不是通用拼音，反而是威妥瑪！ In Taiwan there is an argument about romanization on roadsigns. Now in 2010 the enemy is not Tongyong Pinyin but... Wade-Giles! （亦即本文原口號「推漢語拼音，摧通用拼音 （Go Hanyu Pinyin, No Tongyong Pinyin） 可以暫時（？）退休了。

建議行政院 Ideas for the Executive Yuan: 地名每層採漢語拼音 Hanyu Pinyin for all levels of place names: Taipei => Taibei, Kaohsiung => Gaoxiong. link:2008.10.

各縣市一旦合併，將產生大量新門牌住址。 行政院應趁此難得機會， 建請其所屬營造國際生活環境推動小組中文譯音工作分組， 針對「台北/竹北，台東/竹東，新竹/新店...」同字卻異譯， 廢除其「縣市保留舊譯，鄉鎮則從新譯」之規定， 落實譯音標準。

It is even more important to get rid of the rule that cities and counties' names still use old (Wade-Giles, etc.) Pinyin (whilst towns, villages and roads use Hanyu Pinyin) upon the eve of the large amount of new addresses generated by the unification of Taiwan's cities and counties.

很多各部會人員以為或許是因為上列十二地方的「地方政府不配合」而造成兩種拼音同步使用。 其實，問題完全不是因為「地方政府不配合」， 正好相反， 大家只是遵守行政院（營造國際生活環境推動小組中文譯音工作分組） 「縣市保留舊譯，鄉鎮市村里路巷則從新譯」之規定， 自從幾次「拼音戰爭」之前， 沿用一直至今。

「依行政院營造國際生活環境推動小組民國98年5月6日國際字第09862600081號函意旨， 國際通用之行政區域名稱， 依國際通用方式譯寫。」 臺灣地區鄉鎮市區級以上行政區域地名譯寫方式調查表中灰底框。

此特表方法來自如此歷史上的規定：

「地名譯音以漢語拼音為準。 但國際通用地名或沿用已久不宜更動之地名、 縣級以上行政區域名稱、 行政區劃層級、 國際機場港口之統一譯寫依附表一之規定。」

人家給你機會鋪人行道， 你還要維持每店面高高低低爬來爬去。 大家已橫著寫，你要直，大家向右，你仍以為左。

該規定之分裂精神源自「方便外國人」找得到舊名， 反而造成如 Google™ 等電子地圖必須另設例外表， 無法全自動譯音。 （真想方便外國人就全面採公元年。）

打贏了通用拼音反而又留一半威妥瑪桎梏自縛。 高速公路每兩牌就是。

另「怕些國際條約要改」。 改就改。連漢城能改首爾。 哪有國家實施混合拼音？ 大陸也沒那麼糊塗，如台灣內部自己搞的現行此「一國兩制」。

玩得如上述連自己公務人員聽說台灣採漢語拼音又好像不是。 遑論登報交給一般民眾懂。

故在此強調我積丹尼本外國人要的是什麼： 地名全面採漢語拼音。 不再列以上十二地名為特例。 妙的是以上地名二十四個國字當中， 只有五個字不是同時又通用拼音又漢語拼音， 故通用拼音朋友沒得罵。 至於威妥瑪愛護者，年齡都已大… （其實真威妥瑪不會將歌與科、 之與吃， 等字拼得一模一樣如此台灣四不像版。）

既然沒人懂， 也無希望人懂， 那只好寄託行政院曾志朗委員辦公室裡的人， 幫忙傳達此案之重要性， 趁各縣市尚未合併此難得機會， 取消上述十二地名特例。

今比當初開始開會更亂： I remember when we first had those meetings back in 1999 to clean up the wretched "bastardized" (p=b=p etc.) Wade-Giles system for place names here in Taiwan. So now we still have it after all, mixed up even more, with Hanyu Pinyin. Why can't we just have Hanyu Pinyin?

反正若政府要宣示什麼， 要全國一次的。電腦的人要一次改程式。 不要一區一個日期， 另一區另一個日期。 Whatever the government announces, it should be only once, for the whole country. Don't set different dates for different areas. Programmers can't stand it.

有關單位

1999-2009年

[Photo: 老外積丹尼搞漢語拼音 Taiwan Daily News header]

上圖 Above: 台灣日報 1999.4.5 p.1, Taiwan Daily News: Dan Jacobson pushes Hanyu Pinyin for street sign romanization...

教育政策建議 Education policy recommendations

除了路牌根除余博士雜牌拼音之外， 謹建議 Aside from removing Dr. Yu's inbred clutter from road signs, I recommend

  1. 地名每層採漢語拼音 Hanyu Pinyin for all levels of place names:

    Taipei -> Taibei, Kaohsiung -> Gaoxiong.

  2. 國中介紹漢語拼音 Introduce middle school students to Hanyu Pinyin:

    同學們， 您的名字會不會拼？ Johnny, do you know how to spell your name?

沒完沒了 Endless argument

推漢語拼音， 摧╱廢通用拼音 Go Hanyu Pinyin, no Tongyong Pinyin. 希望有市場機制遏制類似事情再度發生。 I wish market forces would prevent similar incidents from happening again. 反正， 阻礙人類溝通之技倆遲早必輸。 Anyways, schemes to interfere with human communication will fail in the end.

[Photo: 台北市政府前 In front of Taibei City Government] 圖： 我與「通用拼音」主謀余伯泉， １９９８年。 兩個人都伸出大拇指贊成 他的市府路路牌。 但糟糕： 他現在想爬上去加一個ｈ字， 而馬市長不准。 註。

Photo: Me and "Tongyong Pinyin" perpetrator Yu Boquan, 1998. We are both thumbs up over the spelling of his "ShiFu Rd." sign. But wait: now he wants to climb back up and add an "h" but mayor Ma won't let him. note.

感謝馬英九聽見我們「外籍人士」的話， 不像李應元。 Thanks Taibei mayor Ma for listening to we "foreigners", unlike his 2002 opponent Li Yingyuan.

（惟２００７年馬反對郵票改印「台灣」。算了。）(However in 2007 Ma objected to changing postage stamps to say "Taiwan". So he is not that wonderful.)

我們外國人為了學中文花很多時間， 把漢語拼音背得很熟， 正如大家背１２３阿拉伯數字， 也用了很多年， 而突然來了個小丑及小丑政府， 來開玩笑， 玩遊戲， 要把我們好不容易背起來的系統， 弄一個假的， 似是而非。 干擾到腦部深層。 如同重定紅綠燈意義。 We foreigners, to learn Chinese, spend countless hours memorizing Hanyu Pinyin, just like one has memorized numerals 123..., and use it for many years. When along comes a clown and clown government, to crack jokes and play games. Taking the system that we spent so much time ingraining into our brains, and making a phony look alike, disorganizing the deep layers of the brain, like as if they redefined the meaning of red/green traffic lights.

You see, the those in charge (of the federal government) here in Taiwan have a hard time accepting the Hanyu Pinyin Chinese romanization system for bilingual street signs, because that system reminds them of China perhaps. Therefore they must add their "value added services", Tongyong Pinyin, which amounts to mangling a few letters of Hanyu Pinyin.

[Photo: 鄧盈玉， 積丹尼， 余伯泉 Deng Yingyu, Dan Jacobson, Yu Boquan] 圖： １９９８年那天余伯泉請我到新光大樓。 Photo: that day in 1998 when Yu Boquan invited me to Xinguang Tower. 不知道他此臉仍要不要： 余伯泉放大 Enlargement of Yu Boquan， 可供懸賞照之用 suitable for most wanted posters.

Q: 至於「通用」主謀怎會跟您一同照相， 莫非您也是幫兇之一？ What were you doing taking snapshots with the "Tongyong" mastermind, might you be one of his co-conspirators?

A: 那天為第一次見面， 他約我來請我加入他的跟隨者， 但教唆不了我。 That was our first meeting. He tried to get me to become one of his followers.

２００３．７． １１路名拼音洋人堅持漢語─聯合新聞網記者陳怡如∕台北報導

行政院研考會與交通部昨天聯合舉辦「道路指標雙語化」研討會， 儘管行政院已政策決定所屬機關中文英譯全面採用通用拼音， 但受邀出席的歐洲商會和外籍人士仍一面倒支持漢語拼音， 甚至有人直接點名採行通用拼音根本就是總統要的東西。 …

反正， 「漢」、 「中國」、 「字」、 「拼音」， 如果將語言看作政治表現， 保證沒完沒了。

台灣的領導者怕作漢語拼音路牌， 好像因為太像中國、 共， 所以由專家先生勉強改幾個字母， 「通用拼音」則誕生。

為什麼政府還在寫「民國９３年」不寫２００４年？為什麼不先改此？

What about finally using "2004" etc. instead of "ROC 93" year names? Why doesn't the Taiwan government fix that first?

「通用」敢改ｆｅｎｇ為ｆｏｎｇ， 但注音符號不敢碰ㄈㄥ。 若蹦碰夢奉不再押韻， 為何不敢敢給國人看， 只對外宣傳？

Chronology 近史記

2005: 余伯泉改於桃園蘆竹某大學上班。 被中研院炒魷魚還告院。 Yu BQ now works at a university in Luzhu, Taoyuan County. After getting excused or whatever from Academia Sinica, he sued them for excusing him...
２００５： 何萬順教授的似 「丙式通用」解決妙法
2003.6 They wanted to lynch Dr. Yu.
2003.6 些縣 不沿用舊拼
2003.4.20 「台南高雄沿線許多可以彎進一些鄉鎮的 "市區" 英文竟然全標為 "Shihcyu" 」
2003.1.25 嘉義兩字的英文譯名拼音混亂， 縣市政府下周一連繫會報將提案統一為「Ｃｈｉａｙｉ」 City and county will be called "Chiayi"

笨蛋， Ｊｉａｙｉ才不必遲早再改， 恰亦其跛腳通用拼音「法」。 Bzzzt. Guess again, fools. It's right there on your Tongyong chart too.

2003.1.15 國推會改組， 有戲可看了（Fun to ensue after Mandarin Board reorg. [Chinese]）
2002.10.4 Yu changes the name Tongyong Pinyin to Taiwan Pinyin “通用拼音系統創作人余伯泉教授當場同意， 將「通用拼音」改名為「台灣拼音」”

He has changed the name before. He'll change it back in a few days. 這不是他第一次改名。 我預料沒幾天他會改回來。

2002.8.14

主要我想說是通用拼音是反對愛情， 反對人類， 不用愛做出發點。 是把反對目前中國政府， 那股好的努力， 反而倒過來向民眾， 向我們漢語拼音使用者為難， 造成連支持台獨的我， 希望再一次政黨輪替。 Mainly I'm saying that Tongyong Pinyin is anti-love, anti-human. They are taking a good idea: saying no to the current government of China, and mistakenly turning it against the people: we Hanyu Pinyin users, causing even supporters of Taiwan Independence like me, to wish for another switch of ruling parties.

這是因為在他們狹窄經驗中民族、 護照、 語言必須有關聯， 故納粹醫師似的製造一種殘忍的語言學。 This is because in their narrow experience, ethnic groups, passports, and language, all must be connected. So like Nazi doctors they create a cruel twisted form of linguistics.

台獨洋女婿積丹尼主張漢語拼音 －台灣日報２００２．７．１２． 紙的報紙我尚未看， 聽說我的不止一篇。

我門「外國人」來台之前都花了很多時間背漢語拼音， 知道嗎？ Guess what, we "foreigners" spent lots of time memorizing Hanyu Pinyin before coming to Taiwan.

好的好的我必須承認 Ok, Ok, I must admit:

其實， 通用拼音些關鍵變化原來是我叫余伯泉做的 Actually, it was I who influenced many of Tongyong Pinyin's critical changes

〔２００２．７．１９〕像１９９８年余伯泉剛開始掛路牌時， 我跟他說同一個聲母不要又用Ｃ又用Ｑ否則真的語言學家會看不起你。 雖然他沒有當場答應但我只知道他回去之後果然不久他就這麼做。 我的態度都是建議他不用搞什麼通用拼音但既然一定要搞就叫他有某些點不要太好笑。 我那些語言學知識多數只是用旁聽學的， 余伯泉大概更少。 那時也給他不少客語音標建議， 大概現在我也忘了不少。 反正余伯泉一直要我簽他那些支持者名單甚至分享當客語篇合作作者之一的「榮譽」， 我說開玩笑， 我來勸導你， 不是支持你。 我名字好像也始終從未「不小心」落到他那些名單， 還好。 （我記得謝國平： 「我姓謝， 好幾個筆劃， 怎麼會跑到你名單那麼高的位置？」糗不糗！）（像《論臺灣拼音： 國際性與主體性平衡觀點》（江文瑜、 余伯泉、 羅肇錦、 張學謙等委員）怎麼會有羅肇錦的名字在作者名單中？）

Like when Yu Boquan first started hanging street signs in 1998, I told him that the same phonetic initial should not have both the letters C and Q assigned to it, otherwise real linguists would laugh. Although he didn't agree to it on the spot, all I know is that he went back and sure enough before long he did what I said.

My attitude all along was that he shouldn't bother doing "Tongyong Pinyin", but since he insists on doing it, well there are some things that one shouldn't make too laughable. My linguistic training is mainly from casually sitting in on classes and I bet Yu Boquan has even less. At the time I also gave Yu quite a few Hakka language suggestions, many of which I have surely forgot by now. Anyways, Yu always wanted me to sign his infamous supporters lists. Even share the "honor" of being one of his Hakka plan co-authors. I said are you nuts? I'm here to steer you right, not to support you. Indeed, I appear luckily to have never ended up on those supposed supporters lists of his. (I remember Xie Guoping: "My name is Xie, a character with many strokes. How did I end up in such a high position on your "supporters" list?" What an embarrassment.)

我主要是一直提醒他聲母一致化的重要性， 他才不會被更早笑走。 叫他ㄐㄑㄒ不有時由ＪＱＸ代表， 有時由ＺＣＳ代表， 最好是回歸漢語拼音不再玩。 不久之後果然他就大膽把ＪＱＸ由方案裡趕走， 以ＺＣＳ又代表ㄐㄑㄒ又代表ㄗㄘㄙ， 後來他體會是太過份就讓Ｊ回來。 可憐的Ｊ目前的健康狀況恐怕我沒力追蹤。

Mainly I reminded Yu over and over about the need for systemization of the phonetic initials, or else he was going to get laughed out of the place even earlier. I told him don't have Hanyu Pinyin's JQX sometimes represented by JQX, sometimes by ZCS, and best of all would be a return to pure Hanyu Pinyin. Well, sure enough not long after I told him that he indeed drove JQX out of his scheme, using instead ZCS to represent both Hanyu Pinyin's ZCS and JQX. Later he apparently realized that this was going overboard, and let J back in. Unfortunately I don't have enough energy to track in just what state poor J lies in today.

逃脫Ｑ跟Ｘ的陰影後他們才好說「關心外國人」看到Ｑ跟Ｘ會不舒服的說法。 確定的是Ｊｈ不是我叫他的， 因那時已經很少跟他講話， 但是可見他越來越重視我說的系統化。 我也叫他ｂｅｎｇ、 ｐｅｎｇ、 ｍｅｎｇ、 ｆｅｎｇ與ｂｏｎｇ、 ｐｏｎｇ、 ｍｏｎｇ、 ｆｏｎｇ要選一系， 不要左用三右用一， 但好像我話沒用。 另我１９９８年才跟他認識， 故更早的我也沒影響到。 好像他只是那時才出顯在台灣拼音圈。

After being released from the "shadows of Q and X", Yu et al. were now free to use their "worried about the comfort of foreigners facing unfamiliar letters" slogans. One thing I didn't influence was Jh, as it appeared after I stopped talking to Yu. However, it does reflect the systemization I so emphasized with him earlier. I also told him about beng peng meng feng vs. bong pong mong fong. I said pick one set or the other, don't mix and match. Apparently he never took this advice of mine. By the way, Yu's pre-1998 stuff I didn't influence, as I hadn't met him by then. Indeed, I don't think he appeared on the "pinyin scene" here in Taiwan much earlier.

If what you say is true, then you've made it possible for a lot of key players to be able to stomach Tongyong.

Well, if they stomach it now they can stomach anything anyway.

T-Pinyin: 台灣式漢語拼音 Hanyu Pinyin Taiwan style.

Quality Pinyin Links from the Truth Team 不光聽我的：

[漢語拼音方案 Hanyu Pinyin definition] 它是一個標準， 不會發生變化， 我們住台的外國人都支持它， 而這都專門是給我們看的， 象牙塔們用不到。

通用拼音： 我們外國人的感受： 我們才是用拼音。 倘若有人命令「七」與「八」字的定義必須調換， 說現在七＝８， 八＝７， 而且沒有什麼好理由調換， 難道我們不會頭痛下半輩子？

Tongyong Pinyin: we foreigners' point of view: Were the ones who use pinyin, not them. Imagine if someone ordered that the meanings of the numbers "7" and "8" be swapped, and for no good reason. It would be painful to have to get used to their new meanings.

拼音修正主義者沒有好下場…歷史的罪人名單熱編中（哈哈）

[Photo: Dan J. and Yu Boquan 1998.7.18]

I got to thank the guy responsible for Taibei's romanized street sign mess, the jumbled Yu Boquan, because now's my chance to get Hanyu Pinyin on those signs. Can you believe the same things that were in his scheme one year, he calls press conferences with legislators to protest against the next year: 我們最好挖一下余伯泉的舊網站中的 “台北市街路地名譯名系統研究（期初報告）” （檔案最後修改日期１９９７－ＯＣＴ－２２）當然已經被他銷毀， 還好我有先做備份以保留證據， 就是說， 如1999-7-22 他請立委李應元跟他開的記者會： 『「Xuan; Xia; Xiao; Xi」誰會唸？反對行政院採用中國的「漢語拼音」』 我問他的助理， 委員知不知道 Ｘｕａｎ…不久前就是余的方案的一部分， 再早一點， 全部為他所愛 legislator Li Yingyuan helps Yu protest against Communist "X" letter even while some of Yu's X's are still hanging... 許昌街的Ｘ， 舊泉街的Ｑ， 自己掛上去， 來不及拿下來轉而開記者會反對自己掛的東西。

另外為什麼不提漢語拼音的“ｃａｎ”？（因為也是余案的）。 那麼我們可以說， 余先生今天的方案的任何部分， 有可能晚上就放棄， 第二天甚至於請立委們提他開記者會為了堅決反對。 然後有一些熱心的支持者跟著他， 真丟臉， 最丟臉的是有一兩位有語言學訓練的人也跟著他。 總而言之， 他甚至比我更差勁！ Photo: 與余伯泉合照， 台北 1998.7.18 with Yu Boquan, Taibei. 另張 Other photos.

１９９９╱４╱２０自由時報「自由廣場」洪惟仁： 請誠實對待「通用拼音」。 余伯泉為人格破產者。

一些積丹尼的寶貴看法也丟入此 Even more of Dan Jacobson's valuable opinions are tossed into this 垃圾桶檔 junk pile file.

Will Pinyin take hold? China News 1999.4.5, by me.

國語推行委員會的網站 Mandarin Promotion Board files:

類韻母前面無聲母時寫成ｙｉ、 ｙａ、 ｙｅ、 ｙａｏ、 ｙｏｕ、 ｙａｎ、 ｙａｎｇ、 ｙｉｎ、 ｙｉｎｇ。

ｕ類韻母前面無聲母時寫成ｗｕ、 ｗａ、 ｗｏ、 ｗａｉ、 ｗｅｉ、 ｗａｎ、 ｗａｎｇ、 ｗｕｎ、 ｗｏｎｇ。

接著他把ㄨ、 ㄧ當做聲母， ㄧ加ㄧ得伊字；ㄨㄨㄥ即翁字…ｈａｈａｈａｈａ；該表畢不了業， 又有台大中文系教授兼委員們推薦通用拼音， 拜託。 兩年前我有提醒余伯泉， 至今他仍不把握聲母與韻母之分。 動搖國本， 快抓起來關！

很好笑是通用派的人批評漢語拼音“ｃａｎ”＝ㄘㄢ， 忘記自己也是。 在自由時報的自由廣場常出現， 如１１╱３０╱００。

投稿聯合報： 拼音不能阿Ｑ

２０００．１２．４ 民意論壇投書的中研院高明達先生前日也寫給我。 他發現我的網頁把通用拼音作者余伯泉的英文名字用Ｑ寫的， 要求改正。 我說兩年前余伯泉掛台北市路牌時余伯泉相當喜歡Ｑ， 不相信的話到台北車站前ＧｕａｎＱｉａｎ路。 台北市６００多路名從原版掛的通用拼音要改為現在的通用拼音， 必須換掉三分之一的路牌；選漢語拼音也是三分之一， 只是漢語拼音４０年始終未變， 其原作者不必怕連自己的名字弄得人家不清楚， 何況大家的。

From: 中研院的高明達 M.T. Ko Nov 29, 2000

I happen to browse your home page.

Thank you

I think it is impolite to spell Dr. 余伯泉[Yu Boquan]'s name in Han-Yu Ping-In.

Hanyu Pinyin

He has his English name Yu Bo-Chyuan. You must respect his

兩年前我跟他玩耍時就是ＹｕＢｏＱｕａｎ。 此人隨著其案之蛻變改名字。 此行為一般記錄者難以接受， 例如美國國會圖書館不會接受。 何況他如果得逞可能受害不限於自己的名字。 不相信請到台北車站前的館前路路牌， 那時他掛的很喜歡Ｑ。 現在他喜歡Ｃ而非您所提之Ｃｈ， 但是要追蹤每日他喜歡什麼拼法實在太累。 ＴａｉｐｅｉＴｉｍｅｓ報社對他另有一拼法。 怎麼穩定網頁？何況國家？ 上次洪維仁遭余伯泉罵因為拿做評論不是余伯泉拼音案最新的版本。 我的確沒如洪那麼無辜的， 我只是不想再玩了。 [I argue [in Chinese] that his own name's spelling changes as often as his "Tongyong Pinyin", and I gave up on keeping track, etc.]

own right to spell his name like I will respect you use your chinese name 積丹尼[jidanni]。

積丹尼我從１９８０年代用始終無變 [I mention I've used [jidanni] since the 1980's without changing it once.]

2003/7: 余名片Ｂｏ又長了個ｒ。 I notice Bo on Yu's name card has grown an "r".

中央研究院週報 中也有一篇高明達他們寫的 「使用漢語拼音的代價」 如被以為賣淫， 怕查稅者更加怕等等。

More photos (of me, of course) 寫假集

台語、 客語 Taiwanese and Hakka languages

(台語即閩南語。 Taiwanese is also called Southern Min, and Amoy. Hakka is also called Kejia.)

《用漢語拼音拼台、 客語》（"Using Hanyu Pinyin to Romanize Taiwanese and Hakka"）

我２００１年的態度是： 閩、 隨便他拼， 只給我漢語拼音路牌。 My 2001 attitude: let them spell Taiwanese and Hakka however they choose, just give me Hanyu Pinyin road signs.

From Dylan Sung 11/2000: I guess you've not seen mainland publications of Hakka dictionaries, because there are already schemes for romanising Meixian (Moiyen) dialect. If you are able, you might like to acquire a copy of Zhang WeiGeng's "Kejiahua Cidian", 1995, from Guangdong Renmin Chubanshe. Its romanisation was created as early as 1960. In fact, Hainanhua, Chaozhou and Guangzhouhua were also romanised at around the same time. It is mentioned in Hashimoto's The Hakka Dialect.

Dan says: I have Hashimotos's book. I have seen various schemes to adopt hanyu pinyin to the 'dialects', a nasty looking one is that fat dictionary from Xiamen Univ. for Minnanyu. So I too tried my hand at it with the result being my 1997 paper. However, this is not an active area I'm fighting about anymore, as of course the key out of trouble here in Taiwan is getting hanyu pinyin in place on the road signs. As far as the 'dialects' are concerned, I'll let the professors fight it out amongst themselves. Indeed, their envisioned target: school kids, don't really pay attention to romanization clues in their one hour per week 'mother tongues' classes.

台中縣東勢鎮客語 Dongshi (Taizhong County) Hakka language

Po-Feng Yang 11/30/00 > What I am interested is your view on mu3 yu3 jiao1 xue2 and all the phonics systems out there. That would be great if you can elaborate on these topics.

母語教學： 其實小朋友不在乎那麼多符號。 我主張讓余伯泉當母語總裁， 路牌讓給曾部長。 余伯泉搞垮母語符號屆時， 沒關係因為小朋友不那麼在乎符號。 母語音標我也有一套， 但不拿出來爭， 爭完會發現小朋友已長大了， 沒人講母語了。

From: 楊CY 12/12/00: dear Dan, I can't enter the characters spelled nu:3 and lu:4 我使用漢語拼音好多年了但是我沒辦法拼出女和綠這兩個字可不可以教我怎麼拼呢 Dan says: I bet you are using Micro$oft; try using nv and lv ...:-)

學古中文的好書： 同源字典王力著；臺北市： 文史哲１９９１。 另有 林金鈔 閩南語探源 ；新竹市： 竹一１９８０

"Amazing" Chinese-English "coincidences" that I "discovered"

Notes for ShiFu Rd. photo:

不但此枚， 還有三分之一的他自己當年掛的路牌又要改， 如這張要加個ｈ： ＳｈｉｈＦｕＲｄ．否則太像中共什麼的。 Not only this sign, Yu wants to change 1/3 of the versions he originally hung, e.g. this one he wants to add an "h": ShihFu Rd. otherwise it is too like China or something.

Wasn't it Shih in the original Wade scheme? Back to where we started, no? P.S.: regarding the words on the building. We'll get that changed to "Taibei" one day too.

另有個細節， 第二字要不要大寫： Ｓｈｉｆｕ大概比ＳｈｉＦｕ較耐用但因他此牌可算為漢語拼音我也高興：

There also is a fine point: the capitalization of the second character's romanization: the Fu in Shifu. Shifu is probably more wear-resistant than ShiFu, but I was thumbs up anyway, as at least this sign of his could be considered Hanyu Pinyin. [If you pass "ShiFu" through a chain of 10 people like in those games, it is most likely to become "Shifu", so, if we start with "Shifu", we don't have to worry about data loss. It's the same philosophy behind why we don't put tone marks or IPA on street signs, it is striking a balance, we want the information reproducible in even say, Morse code transmission circumstances. Yes, when I first thought about the problem I felt real bad about the loss of information involved [ShiFu->Shifu], but, gotta strike a balance.] The U.S. Post Office uses all capital letters.

２００２．１０．７北市府說： 約定俗成、 國際通用的拼音方法， 例如「基隆」、 「台北」、 「羅斯福路」等仍維持原拼法， 不做更改。
丹要： Ｊｉｌｏｎｇ， Ｔａｉｂｅｉ， Ｒｏｏｓｅｖｅｌｔ。
新的路標不加註聲調， 但為突顯漢字發音特色， 每個漢字音節的第一個字母都會大寫， 例如「仁愛路」譯為「ＲｅｎＡｉＲｄ。 」。
丹說： 也可以。

那麼笨， 別的不是中國的國家都在用漢語拼音， 只有你們， 嘴巴講不是中國但頭腦還卡在「我是真的中國， 它是假的中國， 真的中國不能用假的中國的拼音」。

外國人不禮「茂」： Presidential Adviser 梁榮茂 Liang Rongmao wrote in the Taiwan News newspaper 2001/07/03: Foreigners should respect Taiwan's choice. Uh huh.

外國人能夠按照國際慣例， 尊重台灣人提出地主國自己的語言政策。

…不要輕易介入與政治意識型態有關的議題中， 例如語言就是與政治意識型態密切相關的議題。

Taiwan News newspaper 2001/08/01 editorial was "We proudly choose Tongyong Pinyin".

余伯泉及跟隨者２０００年已到國語推行委員會就職， 帶領我們到空前路牌不安的時代。 其中江文瑜教授常說「若用通用拼音可免鍵盤打漢語拼音Ｑ字對左小指之傷」。 圖： 右小指仍受打 Ｅｎｔｅｒ 鍵之苦， 怎辦？The Tongyong team promises relief from Hanyu Pinyin's Q damage to typists' left pinky, but doesn't the right pinky still have to hit Enter? 使人想起 Reminds one of 惡博士 Dr. Evil pinky habits.

經度是從倫敦算其， 我們美國人雖然從英國獨立， 仍用之。 語言文字又繼續用又仍叫英文， 拼法也不差多少。 Longitude is counted from London, but that doesn't bother us Americans. Though we declared independence from Britain, we still use and call the language English, and the spelling differences are minor.

"On December 15, 1809, William Lambert presented to the House of Representatives ... "the calculation of longitude from the meridian of a foreign nation implied a "degrading" "dependence", and was "a shackle of colonial dependence" ...

阿共內褲穿裡面， 所以我們穿外面吧！

後來…很多語言學家都不再出席會議了

中間大寫證明害人 Using capital letters in the middle of words proven bad

Yu Boquan's only contribution to the landscape left behind was the putting of capital letters in the middles of words ... [Chinese] 北市府沿用余氏唯一的「貢獻」會造成大家忽略用隔音符號「’」之惡習慣。 李兆坤 3/2003 writes:

漢語拼音被台北市政府弄得四不像。 民政局以大小寫來區分前後音節， 因此全沒有隔音符號。 譬如我家附近的西安街， 叫做 XiAn St.。 可是在新版的捷運車站資訊中， 因為要全部大寫， 西安街卻變成 XIAN ST.；成了「仙街」。

可見， 一需將余氏法全大寫， 害人害己。

05/29/2003 通用拼音修正主義分子嘴臉會被台灣人民唾棄， 老天爺會給他們應有的報應！ The drooling Tongyong revisionists stooges will be rejected by the Taiwanese people and meet their punishment. :-)

「通用拼音方案」評析： 北京大學中文系王理嘉（連接掉了）

台灣正名後就可以用漢語拼音

國號若正名為台灣後， 國號可以清清楚楚寫在地址後面， 不必再扭曲地址本身的拼音為了表示國別。

程式 Programs

CPAN, mandarintools etc. sites have pinyin related software.

台中公車拼音 Taizhong bus romanization

By the way,

台灣的英文住址 Taiwan English postal addresses

郵局 Post Office 中文路名英譯一覽表 translation table 還算正式嗎？ really official?

尾語 Ending words

漢語拼音的價值就是在於有很多人在用。 細節已不重要。 不會就學。 另最好漢語拼音也不要跟著語音自然變遷而一直修正。 最好它維持做固定編碼索引， 像英文。

The value of Hanyu Pinyin is in its large user base. Phonetic details aren't important anymore. If it is unfamiliar, then study it. Also one hopes Hanyu Pinyin will stay frozen and not change with the language. A fixed indexing system, like English.

老外搞拼音姓名學 Foreigner turns to Pinyin fortunetelling

台灣路牌換拼音頻繁， 乾脆用電子看板算了。 Taiwan street sign pinyin changes so often, might as well install reprogrammable eclectic sign boards.

積丹尼 Dan Jacobson

Last modified: 2024-10-24 05:11:13 UTC